Burnet County ESD #3 (Granite Shoals)

[Kylfyre]

Election Day is coming up on November 3, 2009. One Item on the ballot is that of a creation of Emergency Service District #3 (Granite Shoals Area). This is a very important item up for election as it affects Fire Department and First Responder service for the unincorporated Granite Shoals area, Twin Isles, Shady acres, and the Kingsland area located in Burnet County. Every ones support is needed.


Burnet County ESD #3 (Granite Shoals area)

Benefits include.
• Better fire and emergency first responder services.
• ESD tax revenue can be used to hire full-time professional emergency personnel, or contract with other governments who have full-time fire and EMS Organizations.
• ESD tax revenue can be used to purchase new equipment and facilities.
• In areas that have established and ESD, these practices have considerably reduced fire response times, saving property and lives.
• Volunteer Fire Departments do not have to focus as much on fund raising, allowing for continual training. This results in superior results and continued quality service.
• Lower property insurance rates.
• Establishing and ESD also may result in a better Insurance Standards Organization (ISO) rating of the ESD service area and lower insurance premiums for businesses and homeowners.
• Fair, evenly shared support from all the citizens who receive fire and first responder service.
• ESD Board of Directors are appointed by the County Commissioner’s Court and are comprised solely of residents that live within the ESD District.

ESD Cost
• An ESD can levy a tax of 1 to 10 cents per hundred dollars of taxable property value. Example: $120,000 (home) X .10 = $120 yearly for the fire and first responder services. 10 cents is the Maxiumun allowed tax allowed by law.


Summary
Emergency Services District will provide low cost, high quality Fire and EMS First Responders protection for residents of the district. Although, none of us enjoy taxes, no where else can we get protection and piece of mind for so little money.

PLEASE COME BY THE GRANITE SHOALS FIRE DEPARTMENT AT 8410 HIGHWAY 1431 WEST, IN GRANITE SHOALS FOR MORE INFORMATION AND SPEAK WITH THE PERSONNEL ABOUT OUR GOALS AND SERVICES. WE VALUE EACH AND EVERY OPINION AND ARE HERE TO SERVE YOUR NEEDS AND CONCERNS. YOU CAN ALSO CALLor vist us online
(830)596-8110. www.gsfd.us (http://www.gsfd.us)

[Caretaker]

Great another TAX. Why cant we just use the Volunteer departments? And why do we need another board or commssion?Especially since it wont be just your average resident heading them up.It will be the good ole boy system like all the boards.

My vote is No.

[Kylfyre]

Caretaker, I would like to take some time to clarify some points.
1. "Get another Tax."
Yes there will be a small tax for folks that live in the Granite Shoals FD response area. This tax does not involve the City of Granite Shoals or the City of Highland Haven. Both of these cities are already paying taxes for fire service and will not be double taxed.
If you live in the ETJ of Granite Shoals, Twin Idles, Shady acres, Look Out Mountain, or the Kingsland area that is located in Burnet County, you do not pay any taxes for fire service. The ESD will draw funds from these areas to make funding the Fire Department a fair and equtiable system.

If the ESD does not pass the City of Granite Shoals my impose a pay per call system in which you are responsible for any expenses incured for responses to the County Areas. These expenses depending on the call may be, $500.00 or more per response. The ESD is easier and more econmical way to fund the Fire Rescue Services.

2. " Why can't we use volunteers?"
We do and we will continue to use Volunteers even after the formation of the ESD. Our Fire Department is a Combination Fire Department. (Both Paid and Volunteer) We have a full time paid Chief and 5 part-time Firefighters that work one per shift from 8am-4pm 7 days a week. The department has 35 volunteers that are on call 24-7.
Volunteer have other full time jobs and are not available to respond to every call. The Granite Shoals Fire Department is responding to approximatly 1000 calls per year. 50% are in the city limits and 50% are in our county response area.
Keep in mind Volunteers are not "Free Labor". Fire apparatus, and equipment, insurance, training of Paid and Volunteer Firefighters and facilities cost money. The average cost of a new Fire truck is $250,000 to $400,000 and will last about 10 - 15 years, average cost of Fire Protective clothing, $2500 per set (these suits are good for 10 years per state law). These are just two of the many items that are required. We activly apply for grants to help purchase items to help stretch our current budget.

3. "The average resident won't be heading the board up."
Only residents that reside in the ESD are eligible for appointment to the board. The First board members are appointed by the County Commisioners Court, after their 2 year term is up they will be up of re-election.

4 "It will be a good ole boy system".
Not True. All meetings held by the board are subject to the "Open act" and decision made by the board will be in open forum during monthly ESD meetings in which residents can participate.
The Board will be established for checks and balances. The ESD doesn't just hand over a blank check. The Board will make sure that every dollar spent is accounted for and they will bring up specifc needs to the Fire Chief for their district.

We will hosting an ESD information meeting on October 29, at 7:00pm at the Granite Shoals Fire Station, located at 8410 highway 1431 W. in Granite Shoals to further discuss the creation of Burnet County ESD#3 .

Please make an "informed" decision on this topic and attend the meeting to ask questions and voice your concerns.

Thanks
Chief Austin Stanphill

[JSKR]

Hi,

As I posted on another thread, I truly understand the need for more money and truly appreciate ALL that you do.

I just am not sure how much more money everyone can expect to take from us especially in this time of economic hardship that so many are experiencing. It seems as though the tougher times get, and the more people who lose jobs, the more taxes we are asked to pay.

How often can the tax be asked for? Every year?
For those who live in the GS city limits that you mention will not be double taxed, if the proposed hike does not pass, will we who live in GS city limits be charged the per call fee on top of the taxes we already do pay?

How does one run for a board seat for the ESD?

By the way, I appreciate all of the information you have posted. It helps to understand what is going on. I am going to try like heck to get to the information meeting at the end of the month.

[Kylfyre]

Hey JSKR, thanks for your good questions.

You wrote
"I just am not sure how much more money everyone can expect to take from us especially in this time of economic hardship that so many are experiencing. It seems as though the tougher times get, and the more people who lose jobs, the more taxes we are asked to pay."

This is understandable and possibly the biggest stumbling block for the entire ESD. But the bottom line is that Granite Shoals has been providing Fire,rescue and first response services for these non-incorporated areas without receiving adequate compensation. Keep in mind we respond to about 1000 calls per year, in which approx 50% are in the City and approx 50% are in the unincorperated area. The annual city budget for the fire department is approx $200,000 per year which is what the city of Granite Shoals Taxpayers contributes Highland Haven pay part of this with a contract fee to the City to brovide serives for a flat fee then pay per call over a certin # of calls per year. Burnet county contributes approx $20,000 per year for the unincoperated area and also for mutual aid responses throughout Burnet County. So the total operating budget is about $220,000 per year. This leaves us very few options to raise the necessary funds to continue to respond to the area of our fire district that is not within the City limits of Granite Shoals. The ESD is the easiest and the most cost effective way for the county residents to raise the funds to be in line with what the city is paying.

You wrote
"How often can the tax be asked for? Every year? "

Taxes are collected October 1st of every year and are given to the ESD board to fund their services. These collected funds may only be used for Fire/rescue services and nothing else.
The ESD board has three ways to provide service,
1. Contact with an existing Fire department.
2. Contract with a private Fire Department.
3. Form a new Fire Department.

You asked
"For those who live in the GS city limits that you mention will not be double taxed, if the proposed hike does not pass, will we who live in GS city limits be charged the per call fee on top of the taxes we already do pay?"

If you live in the City of Granite Shoals, you will not be included in the pay per call for normal day to day responses. ie Fire, rescues and first responses your payment of city taxes covers theses calls. There are a few cicumstances that you might be billed, these incidents include multiple false alarms to the same location, arson, controlled burn violations, or haz-mat spills or clean ups.

You asked
"How does one run for a board seat for the ESD?"

The initial ESD Board members are selected by the Burnet County Commisioners Court through an application process. There will be 5 positions open. In order to be eligible you must be a registered voter in the respective ESD area.


One additional point that has not been talked about is ISO Ratings and Homeowner insurance policy rates. Texas Fire Departments are assigned a number ranging from 1-10 by ISO (Insurance Service Organization) 1 being the Best fire coverage and 10 meaning no fire services offered. Granite Shoals currently has a rating of a 4 meaning that you receive lower than average Homeowner insurance rate in most cases. For each point the Fire department increases or decreases equals about an 8% increase or decrease per point. Example if your FD has an ISO rating of a 4 and improves their rating to a 2, Homeowners may receive a 16% insurance reduction per year. If the Fire Service goes from a 4 rating to a 9 rating, Homeowners my see an increase in their Homeowners insurance may increase by up to 40%

[Caretaker]

Heres you some more questions.

1.You state that the Bottom line is that GS has been responding to these calls without compensation.. Why dont you just have these people who call in foot the bill? After all a # of the fires could have been prevented if prior thought would have taken place.People who dont think ahead, then they can pay later IMO.

2.The ESD is the most economical way to fund these services. FOR Who?. The city. You have to remember that alot of people choose to live outside the citys to avoid excess taxes on their propertys.They Know there are risks invloved.

3. You state that the funds can be used in 3 ways.. #2 should not even be included. Private means you would have a situation similar to the Jail fiasco.. New facilty would be what the board would most likely choose IMO.After all its not their money its the tax payers. And all boards have a clear history of spend spend spend.

4.If the initial board selection is hand picked then how is that not the Good Ole Boy system.? The only way you can be fair would be to have all the names thrown in a hat and randomly picked. And can the rescuers themselves be eligible for a board position? That can make a world of difference.

5.You state that Homeowners insurance May or May Not go up or Down depending on the ISO.. If you want to sell this ESD on the public you really should show the guaranteed ups or downs.

Also,if you want to be straight up with folks you should also show multiple examples of the cost for the ESD. make it more broad. Lows to highs. Using that one example of 120,000 home X .10 = 120 can mislead people.The average person will focus on the 120 and think Oh thats not so bad and it will stick in their mind on election day.

[Kylfyre]

Caretaker. Thanks for your questions

You stated
1. "You state that the Bottom line is that GS has been responding to these calls without compensation.. Why dont you just have these people who call in foot the bill? After all a # of the fires could have been prevented if prior thought would have taken place.People who dont think ahead, then they can pay later IMO."

First of all what I said is that the Granite Shoals FD has not received adequate funding in the non-incorporated areas for fire, rescue , and first response service. We do get donations and approx $20,000 per year to respond to these areas. But this is not near what is paid for by the city residents. Pay per call is an option that is being considered but this is why the ESD is being considered as a better option. To give the homeowners a choice that they would like either pay per call or an ESD tax. If the ESD is not approved then the residents will probably start receiving a bill per call which in most cases starts around $500.00 per call but can go up based on call type and amount of resources needed.
Also I agree with you that many fire can be prevented if prior thought would be given, but accidents, medical emergencies, and natural disasters do happen regardless of any preparations made. Keep in mind we are also responding to medical responses, Vehicle accidents, water rescues, and haz-mat spills, not just fires.

You stated
2."The ESD is the most economical way to fund these services. FOR Who?. The city. You have to remember that alot of people choose to live outside the citys to avoid excess taxes on their propertys.They Know there are risks invloved."

The ESD is a once a year payment, so in most cases the ESD is more affordable to the residents. Like I said before we responded to about 1000 calls per year. About 50% in the county 50% in the city. So if we ran 500 calls in the county and billed each call at $500.00 that totals $250,000 in billing response. The billing company would charge a rate to collect the fees. ( I am still working on what that figure will be at this time). But in any case I would guess if your home costs less than $500,000 then the ESD would be a better deal. Remember that is based on 1 call per resident only, If we ran on the same resident multiple times, they would receive multiple bills. Also if your house is more than $500,000 and the fire depatment did not respond to you residence, the ESD would still potentially save you money in most cases on your homeowners insurance charges by having a lower ISO rating.
Yes many people live in the county to avoid paying taxes, but I hope you agree that most people in the county would like to know that if they ever needed to call 911 for any emergency, they would get help when it was needed. I know our services are benefical to many county residents as we respond to an average of 500 calls per year outside of the city limits, that is at least one call per day for somebody in the county requesting our help. I am proud to say or Fire department has responded to every call that has been requested of them everyday or everynight, holidays and weekends 365 days a year. This is exactly why this is up for vote to the residents of the county. If they want an ESD or would rather pay per call.

You stated
3. "You state that the funds can be used in 3 ways.. #2 should not even be included. Private means you would have a situation similar to the Jail fiasco.. New facilty would be what the board would most likely choose IMO.After all its not their money its the tax payers. And all boards have a clear history of spend spend spend."

I stated the three options that are available by law to the ESD board to provide Fire Service. Some make more sense than others for this area, but other areas Private FD contract might work better for them. Contracting with the Granite Shoals Fire Department makes more sense for this area because The Granite Shoals infractuture is all ready in place, and also the Granite Shoals FD has a very good ISO rating which means lower insurance rates for residents. Building a FD from scratch would be a time consuming project that would take lots of time and money to start and immediate benifits of the Fire Department might take years to obtain. And using a private FD in this area would probably be more expensive than what the ESD could generate. But these decision would be made by the ESD board and their respective district.

You stated
4."If the initial board selection is hand picked then how is that not the Good Ole Boy system.? The only way you can be fair would be to have all the names thrown in a hat and randomly picked. And can the rescuers themselves be eligible for a board position? That can make a world of difference."

As I said before the board is selected through an application process submitted to the Burnet County Commissioners Court. If you feel this is not a fair system , I don't know what to tell you but that's how most people are selected for Jobs . I think drawing names from a hat would not necessarily produce the most qualified people in the right position. My advice, if the ESD is approved start attending commisioners Court in Burnet County and discuss your concens to them, after all the are the ones appointing the ESD board members based on the application that they receive.
ESD board members may include emergency workers ,but when selecting and electing these folks, the term "Conflict of intrest comes into mind" So care should be taken to make them aware of the legal ramifications of any abuse of power. But Legally if they own land in the ESD and they are paying an ESD tax, they have every right to apply for the position.

You said
5".You state that Homeowners insurance May or May Not go up or Down depending on the ISO.. If you want to sell this ESD on the public you really should show the guaranteed ups or downs."

I cannot speak for all the insurance companies, Most of them use ISO Raitings to determine insurance rates, but some do not use ISO, they have their own cooperate formula to determine rates. So you must check with your insurance company to determine your rates. Updating your insurance policy may also save you money as many insurance companies have not applied our ISO rating in account. So call and check you might get a lower rate. If you have any questions please contact me at the Granite Shoals FD and I will be glad to provide documentation to your insurance company of our ISO Rating.

You stated
"Also,if you want to be straight up with folks you should also show multiple examples of the cost for the ESD. make it more broad. Lows to highs. Using that one example of 120,000 home X .10 = 120 can mislead people.The average person will focus on the 120 and think Oh thats not so bad and it will stick in their mind on election day."

I have stated that the ESD rate can be from 1 cent to 10 cents. per $100.00 evaluation of property values.

The Example I gave for general understanding was a $120,000 dollar property will pay a maximum $120.00 a year in an ESD TAX.
I guess I could have said that a $1,000,000 dollar property will pay a maximum $1000.00 a year in an ESD tax.
Or an $80,000 property will pay a maximum of $80.00 a year
The math is the same and cannot be misinterpreted.

Use this formula to determine your property contribution

Assessed value of your home divided by 100. Take that figure and multiply by .1
This would be the maximum amount the ESD tax would be for your property.

Assessed value of your home divided by 100. Take that figure and multiply by .01
This would be the minimum amount the ESD tax would be for your property.

I hope this helps to clarify information previously posted.

Chief Stanphill
Granite Shoals Fire Department

[nosefornews]

Boy I'm impressed....
if all our discussions about an election issue could be this civil maybe we could have more....

[JSKR]

Hi,

I think you misunderstood my question regarding how often the tax can be asked for. I understand it will be once a year. But, is there a possibility of after the first year and 1st .10 per hundred, that the second year another additional .10 would be requested?

In other words, how often can that particular tax be raised another .10? How long can that one fee actually be enough before another tax is requested, to keep up with the cost of rising supplies, etc.

[Kylfyre]

JSKR.

I am sorry for the mis-understanding of your queston.

You wrote
"I think you misunderstood my question regarding how often the tax can be asked for. I understand it will be once a year. But, is there a possibility of after the first year and 1st .10 per hundred, that the second year another additional .10 would be requested? "

"In other words, how often can that particular tax be raised another .10? How long can that one fee actually be enough before another tax is requested, to keep up with the cost of rising supplies, etc."

The maximum allowable rate at this point per Texas Law for a single ESD is .10 per $100 evaluation. So if the rate is established at .10 cents set by the initial ESD board, no additional tax can be added, 10 cents per $100 is the maximum allowed by Texas state law per ESD. So ESD taxes cannot be raised past .10 unless the State law changes or two ESD are created. If that ever happens or if the initial rate is set below .10 per $100 evaluation, there has to be another election to approve it or if a second ESD were being considered it would need to be voted on as well in a seperate election. For instance if the ESD rate was set a .07 per $100 evaluation for the November 2009 election. Then another election has to take place and the maximum allowed would be and additional .03 cents per $100.
In preforming research there is a possible a sales tax addition that may be added to the ESD that is available. The ESD has to be established before this may happen. And this option still requires an election.

But the bottom line is the ESD is what needs to pass first then the rate is set by the appointed board (with input from the public) based on what service they wish to provide.

Heath code 775 describes the Texas Laws on ESD this can be found at
http://www.orca.state.tx.us/index.php/Home/ESD+Information (http://www.orca.state.tx.us/index.php/Home/ESD+Information)

[Dragster]

The ESD sounds like the most cost effective way to go. I do not plan on having a medical emergency or a fire anytime soon. But, I could have one tomorrow. Knowing that I have a Fire Department responding if I have a fire or my Wife or Children have a Medical Emergency, really eases my worries and helps me sleep at night. Paying a fee once yearly, sounds alot better than the possibility of multiple fees yearly. Thank You Kylefyre, the information you provided is very helpful. Also, I wanted to thank the Fire Fighters for what they do for our community on a daily basis.

[Wolfe]

Is it a one time fee or is it paid yearly? I understand it to be a yearly fee payable just like school taxes and city taxes.

[Caretaker]

wolfe. This tax would be yearly and is based on your propertys evaluation just like all the other ones in Burnet county are.. And it can go up or down.. And not everyone will be paying the same amount.

Texas Constitution reads;
All property must be valued and taxed equally and uniformly..

This is another tax that wont have everyone taxed equally or uniformly.. Some will pay way more then they have too.

[AllyMay]

wolfe. This tax would be yearly and is based on your propertys evaluation just like all the other ones in Burnet county are.. And it can go up or down.. And not everyone will be paying the same amount. It can go up or down based on the assessed value of your property, not the rate if it is set at the max of $.10.

Texas Constitution reads;
All property must be valued and taxed equally and uniformly..

What do you define equally as?

This is another tax that wont have everyone taxed equally or uniformly.. Some will pay way more then they have too.

Do you think that everyone who owns land in the ESD Jurisdiction should pay a set amount, say $100 per landowner, no matter whether they own 1 acre or 100 acres. Why would that be fair and equitable? If you go to the store, do you want to pay a flat amount of tax on the items you buy, say you buy a $200 TV and I buy a $1000 TV, should we both pay $20 in sales tax? Is that how you are defining fair and equitable? Both of these items in the store would be sold based on their "assessed" value.

[Caretaker]

Do you think that everyone who owns land in the ESD Jurisdiction should pay a set amount, say $100 per landowner, no matter whether they own 1 acre or 100 acres. Why would that be fair and equitable? If you go to the store, do you want to pay a flat amount of tax on the items you buy, say you buy a $200 TV and I buy a $1000 TV, should we both pay $20 in sales tax? Is that how you are defining fair and equitable? Both of these items in the store would be sold based on their "assessed" value.


I wouldnt care if I had to pay a set amount of say 100 whether I had 1 or 100 acres. It would be the only fair way to go. Your trying to compare taxation on property to Tvs is ridiculous. Its two different things. First of all when you buy something from the store you pay a One time tax.. You dont keep paying it year after year.Plus when you walk out of the store you own the Tv lock stock and barrel..Plus if at a store you dont have the money to pay that tax you are,nt going home with the TV. When a tax is placed against your property and you cant pay.Well guess what They slap a lien on your place and they can take it from you.With the Tv its yours they aint taking it.See Theres a Big difference in your comparison.

[AllyMay]

It really doesn't matter whether the tax is a one time tax or an annual tax...if you can't pay the tax, you can't afford the property. Whether that is a TV or a house. And if an annual cost of $ .10 per $100 is too much for you to afford then you are probably in trouble to begin with.


Then there is always the bright side, without the fire department, chances are increased that in the event of a fire, your property would be a total loss and then the assessed value of your property would go down and thereby decreasing your taxes. Of course, on the darker side, you now have no place to live. But hey...your taxes are lower!!

Now this conversation is reminding more of the old sight, maybe the newness has worn off of this site... or we are tired of being nice to everyone.

:villagers:

[Caretaker]

It really doesn't matter whether the tax is a one time tax or an annual tax...if you can't pay the tax, you can't afford the property. Whether that is a TV or a house. And if an annual cost of $ .10 per $100 is too much for you to afford then you are probably in trouble to begin with.


Then there is always the bright side, without the fire department, chances are increased that in the event of a fire, your property would be a total loss and then the assessed value of your property would go down and thereby decreasing your taxes. Of course, on the darker side, you now have no place to live. But hey...your taxes are lower!!

Now this conversation is reminding more of the old sight, maybe the newness has worn off of this site... or we are tired of being nice to everyone.

:villagers:


How was answering your question not being nice?. You asked and I gave you my opinion.. And It does matter if its a one time tax or an annual tax. With your TV scenerio you pay the added tax leave the store and its yours.Period. Its technically a one time fee. With property its annual as we all know and the big difference is its assessment will only rise.TVs go down i value..
And it nots the same thing about being able to afford it or you must be in trouble to begin with. Its about flat right or wrong. ITs flat wrong to make people pay rent for ones own property.Annual property tax is just RENT.Period.

[Dragster]

Caretaker, It seems to me that you are pretty much against everything. I personally do not mind paying taxes for fire protection. Yes, it is a yearly fee and if your property value goes up, your taxes will too. I guess from what I have been reading, that you feel that you are never going to need the fire department to come to your rescue. I would rather pay the full 10% and know that in the case of an emergency at my place , that the fire department and police are on the way to help protect my loved ones and my property. Do you also oppose paying taxes for police protection? Because,that is already on your yearly taxes. Also, if you have a fire, are you going to put out the fire yourself?

[tonigking]

Did I totally misread or didn't Austin say those who live in the City will not be affected. We have been paying for years with City Taxes.
It is those outside the City who have benefitted from city taxpayers and it's time they pay their fair share.
:rockon:

[Caretaker]

Caretaker, It seems to me that you are pretty much against everything. I personally do not mind paying taxes for fire protection. Yes, it is a yearly fee and if your property value goes up, your taxes will too. I guess from what I have been reading, that you feel that you are never going to need the fire department to come to your rescue. I would rather pay the full 10% and know that in the case of an emergency at my place , that the fire department and police are on the way to help protect my loved ones and my property. Do you also oppose paying taxes for police protection? Because,that is already on your yearly taxes. Also, if you have a fire, are you going to put out the fire yourself?


Obvoiusly you have read wrong and assumed wrong.. If you would go back and read my posts you would see that I,m Not against the fire depts or the police depts.. I am against property taxes to pay for services when those taxes are based upon ones assessed value..You will see that I have no problem with a flat amount that is equal for everyone. Do you honestly believe that just because you pay more taxes for those services you then a neighbor pays that you will get better service?. Same service so same rate.
And as far as trying to put my own fire. At least I would try.

[Kylfyre]

First of all I want to thank everyone for their "spirited" discussions reguarding the issue of an ESD creation. Please remember that eveyone has a right to their opinion and can openly share them in this fourm. One persons opinion is just that "An opinion". I see merit in Both sides of the issue. Yes Caretaker I see your point of a Flat Rate being a fairer system of compenstion of the ESD, However that is not how the State allows an ESD to be funded.
One thing I question is you stated " The Texas Constitition states taxes shall be equal and uniform." I researched this and found the portion of the Texas Constitution it reads...

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 8. TAXATION AND REVENUE
Sec.A1.AAEQUALITY AND UNIFORMITY; TAX IN PROPORTION TO
VALUE; INCOME TAX; EXEMPTION OF CERTAIN TANGIBLE PERSONAL PROPERTY
FROM AD VALOREM TAXATION. (a)ATaxation shall be equal and uniform.
(b)AAAll real property and tangible personal property in this
State, unless exempt as required or permitted by this Constitution,
whether owned by natural persons or corporations, other than
municipal, shall be taxed in proportion to its value, which shall be
ascertained as may be provided by law.


Also You stated that "Do you honestly believe that just because you pay more taxes for those services you then a neighbor pays that you will get better service?. Same service so same rate."

I see your point, but from the city stand point this is already happening. The city residents are paying over $200,000 a year for the same fire service that the folks in the county are getting for $20,000 a year. How is that fair?

Most all taxes are paid in relation to their value. County, City, School, and income are a few examples I can Think of besided ESD's.
ESD's can be benifical by reducing what you pay in your homeoners insurances rates, Therefore saving you money.

Fire Departments are also charged with the task of being prepaird for emergencies, A pay per call system does not allow this as the Fire department would have to wait for funds to be collected after the incident. This is assuming that it is even paid in the first place. Example- You have a house fire that destroys your home. You have lost everything, then while trying to rebuild and get your life back in order you get a bill for service from the Fire Department of $5000 for Fire department response. The homeowner cannot or doesn't pay. Who benifits from this scenerio?

[Caretaker]

First of all I want to thank everyone for their "spirited" discussions reguarding the issue of an ESD creation. Please remember that eveyone has a right to their opinion and can openly share them in this fourm. One persons opinion is just that "An opinion". I see merit in Both sides of the issue. Yes Caretaker I see your point of a Flat Rate being a fairer system of compenstion of the ESD, However that is not how the State allows an ESD to be funded.

One thing I question is you stated " The Texas Constitition states taxes shall be equal and uniform." I researched this and found the portion of the Texas Constitution it reads...

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 8. TAXATION AND REVENUE

Sec.
A1.AAEQUALITY AND UNIFORMITY; TAX IN PROPORTION TO
VALUE; INCOME TAX; EXEMPTION OF CERTAIN TANGIBLE PERSONAL PROPERTY
FROM AD VALOREM TAXATION. (a)

ATaxation shall be equal and uniform.
(b)

AAAll real property and tangible personal property in this
State, unless exempt as required or permitted by this Constitution,
whether owned by natural persons or corporations, other than
municipal, shall be taxed in proportion to its value, which shall be
ascertained as may be provided by law.


Also You stated that "Do you honestly believe that just because you pay more taxes for those services you then a neighbor pays that you will get better service?. Same service so same rate."

I see your point, but from the city stand point this is already happening. The city residents are paying over $200,000 a year for the same fire service that the folks in the county are getting for $20,000 a year. How is that fair?

Most all taxes are paid in relation to their value. County, City, School, and income are a few examples I can Think of besided ESD's.
ESD's can be benifical by reducing what you pay in your homeoners insurances rates, Therefore saving you money.

Fire Departments are also charged with the task of being prepaird for emergencies, A pay per call system does not allow this as the Fire department would have to wait for funds to be collected after the incident. This is assuming that it is even paid in the first place. Example- You have a house fire that destroys your home. You have lost everything, then while trying to rebuild and get your life back in order you get a bill for service from the Fire Department of $5000 for Fire department response. The homeowner cannot or doesn't pay. Who benifits from this scenerio?




I am well aware of how taxes are done. What I have been saying is the system is wrong and its Not equal or uniform..Period. What we essentially have amounts to nothing more then a Socialist system. Its like the school tax. A lot of people would like to have their kids in a private school but cant afford to pay the tax and private tution. The not even given the option.

You gave scenerio of getting a 5000 bill for services after you have after a fire..1st. Do you know yet what the pay per call amount would be?.An approximate amount would be a good thing for people to now. Because if it is 5k and you get an average of 1000 calls per year. Thats a possible 5mil. that the dept could have.Sounds to me like it would be a better deal for the dept.. And before anyone makes a come back.I just gave all those who want the ESD to pass a reason you may want it.

Another thing you have to look at again is the propertys. How many propertys in the esd district have ag or timber evaluation?.And this ? goes back to the equal part of taxing..Say you have that 1 acre property. Its evaluation is say 120k.That owner would pay 120 it the rate is 0.10. . Then you have the 100 acre or 1000 acre place almost right next door.And because that large owner has the Ag or Timber evaluation he may only be paying 50 to 100 dollars.. How is that fair?. Its Not. And before anyone says it cant happen. Yes it can. I looked at a 1800acre property with ag. Appraised value was 85k. The tax on that place would only be 85.00.

Theres a flip side to every scenerio.

[Kylfyre]

Caretaker

Sorry I was only clarifing the statement you made about the Texas Constitution. An ESD is not a Socialized system. It is an Emergency Service District to provide funds for vital Emergency Services, including Fire, rescue, and First Responder services. Yes there is a tax involved and yes it is based on your assessed property value , but this is how ESD's are funded.

Use this formula to determine your property contribution

Assessed value of your home divided by 100. Take that figure and multiply by .1
This would be the maximum amount the ESD tax would be for your property.

Assessed value of your home divided by 100. Take that figure and multiply by .01
This would be the minimum amount the ESD tax would be for your property.


Please read the following link...
Heath code 775 describes the Texas Laws on ESD this can be found at
http://www.orca.state.tx.us/index.php/Home/ESD+Information (http://www.orca.state.tx.us/index.php/Home/ESD+Information)

If the ESD does not pass residents residing within the unicoperated Areas may end up paying per response. The total pay per call is based on call type, duration, equipment used and many other expenses incured. The figure I gave of $5000 is an approximate figure based on the amount of rescources required to handle a typical House Fire. This figure could be more and it could be less depending on individual incident circumstances. Remember we run more emergencies than just fires so $5000 per call at 1000 calls equaling 5 mil is not accurate.

Lastly you mentioned Ag exempitions and lower property evaluations. Once again ESD are based on property values so if you had an ag exemption on your property you would pay a lower ESD fee. There are pros and cons for both sides. All I ask is everyone make an " Informed" decision and "Vote" whats best for them.

Thank you kindly,
Chief Stanphill
Granite Shoals Fire Rescue

[butchkemper]

On agricultural exempt property such as a ranch, the land around and under the dwelling is taxed at non-agricultural exempt rates.

Butch

[Kylfyre]

Check out the Granite Shoals Fire Department web sit at http://www.gsfd.us [/URL]for more information on the Granite Shoals Fire Department services including monthly call stats, pictures, recall information and much more.

Also
Heath code 775 describes the Texas Laws on ESD's can be found at
http://[URL="http://www.orca.state.tx.us/index.php/Home/ESD+Information"]www.orca.state.tx.us/index.php/Home/ESD+Information (http://www.orca.state.tx.us/index.php/Home/ESD+Information)

Chief Austin Stanphill
830-596-8110

[Kylfyre]

We will be hosting a Question and answer discussion reguarding ESD # 3 vote on October 29, at 7:00pm at the Granite Shoals Fire station located at 8410 Highway 1431 in Granite Shoals. All are invited, but folks living within the proposed district are strongly encouraged to attend. This is an important so gaining important information and making an informed decision will be benefical come election day.


Thanks.
Chief Stanphill

[badkarma]

Good Afternoon...a message for those of you who are strongly opposing the ESD...

I have had the privilege of getting to know the men and women of Granite Shoals VFD...these are good people of the community who hang it all out on the line every time that the tones drop, and do it all at personal risk, without regard to the risk they put themselves in, and do it for little or no compensation. I understand the additional burden that a "new" tax puts on a land owner as I am one too, but before you make your decision on how to vote I would encourage you to go visit the fire hall and see how dedicated these people really are. I don't think that anyone is asking you to do without anything, they are just asking for a little financial help, so that they can better serve the public. Also please remember that the emergency services through out the county did not put this on the ballot, your peers did by signing a petition.


....what would happen if you called 911 and no one responded because the department that was supposed to respond couldn't afford the fuel to get there??? :secret:

[jmerci]

Chief, is it still true that the VFD in Granite Shoals gets its primary money from the water customers and city property owners? If I recall, about half of the folks that benefit from the services were not taxed in any way, and the county only contributed about 1/10th of the annual budget. The last stats I saw showed almost half of the calls were in this county area.

[Kylfyre]

jmerci (http://www.thehighlandlakes.com/member.php?u=1243), Thanks for the question.

Our budget contributions are as follows.
City of Granite Shoals $200,000yr (this also includes Highland haven Contract)
Burnet County $20,000 yr (this includes County response area + Mutual Aid responses to other depts)

The extra $3.00 on the water bill goes to fund three programs. $1.00 goes to each. Each gets approx $12,000 a year but that number changes based on donations collected. This is separate from our Budget.

Police Auxillary (funds community projects such as easter egg hunt, and other items)

Fire Auxillary (funds community projects, training and equipment)

EMS(pays part of the city contract fee to provide for ambulance service)

We also get donations and Grants throughout the year.

With the ESD we will be able to raise what the county residents pay for Fire service to what the citizens of Granite Shoals pays about $200,000 (if the ESD contracts with the Fire department.) making it fair and equal giving the FD a $400,000 budget. With the additional funds the Fire department can Hire some paid full time Firefighters, replace Firetrucks, equipment, better prepare for disasters and further lower insurance rates. The ESD has been successful all throughout Texas, Including Burnet County.

Also you asked about call Volume
Call volume fluctuates from month to month but this is been about average.
about 50 % or 500 calls are in the county response area (this includes mutual aid calls)
about 50 % or 500 calls are in the City Limits of Granite Shoals( This includes Highland Haven Calls).

We are having an ESD Meeting Thursday Oct 29th at 7:00 pm at the Granite Shoals Fire Department to answer questions so County residents can make an informed decision about the ESD prior to the Nov 3rd election. All (City, County) are invited and incouraged to attend.


Chief Stanphill

[jmerci]

Thanks, Chief... my information was a few years old and I am sorry to say that the ratios didn't improve at all. I doubt that most citizens of this area even realized that we have a mostly volunteer fire department or that these men and women devote much of their spare time for the good of all here. I never ever hear them complain. How much better would they be able to do with decent equipment or .. OMG... even PAY for the job they do. Our lives are in their hands, folks... which way do you vote?

[Kylfyre]

Thanks for all that attended the ESD Meeting last night. Lots of Good Questions and Information was discussed. Remember Election day is Tuesday November 3rd. Please support you local Fire Department and vote Yes on the creation of ESD #3.

Chief Stanphill
Granite Shoals Fire Rescue

[Kylfyre]

Tommorow is Election Day. Be Sure to get out and vote. There are many important issues on the ballot. ESD # 3 and ESD # 6 are both very important as they will effect the future of your fire service. Please re-read posts and look into ESD law. (Orca) before you make a decision. Although no one likes new taxes, the ESD's are important to fund so that the fire department organizations get the capital they need to continue to provide you with fire,rescue, and first responder services. Thanks again.


Chief Stanphill

[Caretaker]

Seeing as there has only been about a 2% turnout in voting according to the nightly news you should have your wish in getting your ESD. I Bet theres no more then 8.5 % turnout when its all said and done.

[JSKR]

Ok, I voted and I'm just not sure which amendment was this one! A couple of them threw me off and I didn't know what the heck they meant.

[KINGCHIP]

This was not an amendment. It should have come up before or after the amendments. I think it's a good thing, but turns out I didn't get to vote on it.

Ya shoulda brought in ACORN there, VFD.

[JSKR]

Well I voted in Granite Shoals, and don't recall seeing this to vote on. Am I the only one or was it not included?