The Big Picture

[The obscene clone fall]

For the last ten years I have watched Marble Falls ISD struggle with money, employees, and major decisions. What I want to know is how much does the Super make? How much does our Football coach/AD make? How much do our principals/vice principals make? It seems there's a lot of wasted money going to people who could be used elsewhere. The joke I heard was, "If you screw up, you move up." Put the whole ISD picture on the same table and let someone know every little stinking detail about our children's educators.

[lmam88]

For the last ten years I have watched Marble Falls ISD struggle with money, employees, and major decisions. What I want to know is how much does the Super make? How much does our Football coach/AD make? How much do our principals/vice principals make? It seems there's a lot of wasted money going to people who could be used elsewhere. The joke I heard was, "If you screw up, you move up." Put the whole ISD picture on the same table and let someone know every little stinking detail about our children's educators.

I do not know about faculty salaries but I do know KXAN did an Investigative piece on area Super's a few weeks ago. Our Super is paid $800 a DAY! Sounds like way over the top until you look at what others are making though.
http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/investigations/kxan-investigates-super-salaries

[Peaches]

For the last ten years I have watched Marble Falls ISD struggle with money, employees, and major decisions. What I want to know is how much does the Super make? How much does our Football coach/AD make? How much do our principals/vice principals make? It seems there's a lot of wasted money going to people who could be used elsewhere. The joke I heard was, "If you screw up, you move up." Put the whole ISD picture on the same table and let someone know every little stinking detail about our children's educators.

Make a PIA (public information act) request for those pieces of information...and encourage everybody you know to attend school board meetings.

[The obscene clone fall]

Quickly checked the number of employees listed by the district: 388. Cross checked against staff emails and got 515. How many people actually work for the district?

[JSKR]

The interim super makes $800 PER DAY!!! Link to contact below.

The last super Warren made about 175.000 per year with perks etc. I griped publicly about that for the longest time but it doesn't do any good. That is a HUGE salary for a teeny tiny school district with LESS than 5000 students such as Marble Falls.

Article written right before last super Warren left for Midland.:
"Warren, 41, currently makes $165,800 annually and has a $600 per month car allowance, an insurance allotment and annuity. Perez makes $240,000 yearly. Marble Falls is a 4A district with 4,000 students and MISD has more than 23,000 students, according to the Texas Education Agency Website.

http://media2.kxan.com//PDF/MarbleFallsISD2011SuptContract.pdf

http://www.mywesttexas.com/news/top_stories/article_e74d661f-d586-52c3-b0dc-2891142aaeb2.html

[JSKR]

By the way, it is the ELECTED school board who votes on salary for the super. If you keep these wealthy people on the board, they will continue to over pay the supers. If you have some middle class people on the board, might be more sensible spending.

[Caretaker]

By the way, it is the ELECTED school board who votes on salary for the super. If you keep these wealthy people on the board, they will continue to over pay the supers. If you have some middle class people on the board, might be more sensible spending.


Yes it would stand to reason that the wealthy board members would keep voting for such big pay scales but I do not believe that all the board members are wealthy.The youngest on that board comes from along time family in the county and I dont think they are wealthy..

[JSKR]

Yes it would stand to reason that the wealthy board members would keep voting for such big pay scales but I do not believe that all the board members are wealthy.The youngest on that board comes from along time family in the county and I dont think they are wealthy..

And the rest Caretaker?

[Caretaker]

And the rest Caretaker?

Oh I have no doubt that at least several are well off and probably dont have any reality of why folks should make less money for these over priced admin positions.

[The obscene clone fall]

What about all the head coaches at the high school? What do they get paid? What classes do they teach besides their sport at all levels i.e. 7th-12th grade?

[Caretaker]

What about all the head coaches at the high school? What do they get paid? What classes do they teach besides their sport at all levels i.e. 7th-12th grade?

I have not look into what the coaches make nor how many there are in the district..I know back when I was in school.We had A Head coach and an assistant coach. Both taught History classes as well.They also coached football and track.Maybe the schools should do that again if they dont do it now.

[meeka]

Well our district is TOP heavy and we do have some coaches that only coach. We dont have a business manager for finances.. INTERIM well he is now ACTING superintendent... NO TECHNOLOGY DIRECTOR... he apparently was reassigned... the school district is in the biggest mess I have ever seen it in. SADLY!!!!!!! I believe what is paid is open records.. Our board approved to pay the interim his annuities (TRS) since he is over his contract hours.. he may be making more than the 800 a DAY now!

[bimbo]

hope it’s okay to jump into this thread, i posted the comments below in the "Austin Schools" thread, but it fits y'alls sentiments better….

....here's a thot, slim down up top, mfisd has been paying an interim superintendent hundreds of dollars per day since the summer and how many assistant superintendents, assistant directors, assistant principals & assistant supervisors does a 4A school need? even without the throngs of mid-managers the district has at every level, i'll bet the kids still get taught the 3Rs, that's because teachers do the teaching.

(by the way, coaches are teachers, whether they have an academic classroom or not....)

--
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

[meeka]

Hey I jumped in too! my understanding is that that they will not siim down admin....... they say they wont layoff and will only go on retirees and etc....... BUT I believe the I NTERIM is trying to push for a RIFF. It seems right now if you go against the SUPER y ou are reassigned ... hence he tech director..... that is a whole new story....... an from what I hear ... if it is true will cost the district LOT OF MONEY
Teachers and coaches do what they are allowed to do.

[tarheel]

I have not look into what the coaches make nor how many there are in the district..I know back when I was in school.We had A Head coach and an assistant coach. Both taught History classes as well.They also coached football and track.Maybe the schools should do that again if they dont do it now.

That's how it was at my school too, and we won a state championship at football. The line coach coached track, other coaches doubled up by coaching baseball, etc. Every one of them also taught various subjects. I do know that a number of football coaches in Texas make over $100,000 per year, and all they do is coach.

They were TEACHERS who happened to love kids and sports. And, by the way, they didn't have any teachers' aides. They did all the dirty work themselves. The line coach personally taped my ankles, no trainers, etc.

[commonsense]

Here is the basic problem with Texas schools: The wasteful, ill managed system of Independent school districts. Heavily overstaffed with redundant, highly paid bureaucrats. About 1030 districts in Texas, every one with an overpaid superintendent and administrative staff. The amount of redundancy must be staggering. And then there is so much redundancy in building schools and in their school busing. Buses passing each other because one side of the street is in one district and the other side in another. When we lived in Austin Leander sent buses into Austin to pickup children, because the subdivision was in the Leander School District, to transport them to a Leander school, many miles away while there was an Austin school only a few miles away. What a waste! How much administrative redundancy and waste? 20%, 30%? Maybe more. School bus redundancy and waste? 10%, 20%? Maybe more. It is way past time to eliminate Independent School Districts and go to a statewide system. Robin-hood goes away, costs go way down, academic achievement goes up, etc. Only losers are the bloated independent school districts administers and school bus builders and maintainers. And, if you would like to relieve the burden on us senior citizens, eliminate the unfair system of funding schools with property taxes (they are the one single major expense to most seniors) and go to a sales tax or, heaven forbid, a state income tax ONLY FOR SCHOOLS! (As if the state could do that)

[Caretaker]

Here is the basic problem with Texas schools: The wasteful, ill managed system of Independent school districts. Heavily overstaffed with redundant, highly paid bureaucrats. About 1030 districts in Texas, every one with an overpaid superintendent and administrative staff. The amount of redundancy must be staggering. And then there is so much redundancy in building schools and in their school busing. Buses passing each other because one side of the street is in one district and the other side in another. When we lived in Austin Leander sent buses into Austin to pickup children, because the subdivision was in the Leander School District, to transport them to a Leander school, many miles away while there was an Austin school only a few miles away. What a waste! How much administrative redundancy and waste? 20%, 30%? Maybe more. School bus redundancy and waste? 10%, 20%? Maybe more. It is way past time to eliminate Independent School Districts and go to a statewide system. Robin-hood goes away, costs go way down, academic achievement goes up, etc. Only losers are the bloated independent school districts administers and school bus builders and maintainers. And, if you would like to relieve the burden on us senior citizens, eliminate the unfair system of funding schools with property taxes (they are the one single major expense to most seniors) and go to a sales tax or, heaven forbid, a state income tax ONLY FOR SCHOOLS! (As if the state could do that)


I am in agreement with you on waste.Thats due to OPM for the most part. Now Redundancy is definately a big factor as well. And you are 100% dead on about eliminating property taxes. That has to stop.. There is a Bill from The WE Texans group that or is being presented via Debra Medina that if passed would do that very thing.I believe the bill is SB18.. Also A sales tax would fund schooling and most other things in the countys,city or state.They only keep taxing property for the control over its occupants or as the buffer incase folks quit spending..Take a look at a city,state or even a county CAFR and Compare the sales taxes brought in to the property taxes.Which one is higher?.

[bimbo]

the solution: eliminate the robinhood system. let the districts keep all their own tax money (doesn't mfisd pay out 6-8MIL)... the schools who fail to make the grade would be turned into state military schools, i'll bet veterans and retired law enforcement with teaching certificates could figure out quick how to educate kids on a shoe-string budget....

--
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

[mdarling]

The reason school districts won't give up any of their territory is that they would lose too much in taxes. For example, Horseshoe Bay is partially in Llano County and partially in Burnet County. The kids in the Llano portion have to travel at least 25 miles one-way to school. You think that isn't a pain when you have kids in sports and other extra-curricular activities. But, no way is Llano going to give it up to Marble Falls ISD.

It would also be helpful if this state would give up the state testing. What a waste of classroom time, teacher time, and student time. Teach to the subject. We are still listed low in international statistics for schooling. Why is that?

[K5JSW]

At a recent meeting at MFHS, on the possible change in class schedules, parents were told the the MFISD needed to have 13 teachers retire leave or otherwise off the payroll to meet the current shortfall.

I asked how many administrators leaving it would take to makeup the shortfall and suddenly there was no answer ... Other than I will have to look into that.

That is not a surprise since was the high school principle speaking (and he has no control over what is done at the district level), but I got the impression that was not an avenue that was going to be considered. A quick look at the salaries at the administration level will show you how to address at least part of the shortfall.

MFISD is way too top heavy ... as are almost all public schools in Texas.

I think the district should ask the hard question and go with a mixture of reduction of workforce. If they are redundant a position should be eliminated ... the number of people that do not on a daily basis have contact with students needs to be greatly reduced.

By the way at that meeting there were about 50 parents present with there being about 1100 students at MFHS either parents are not interested OR like myself they are fairly sure the meeting was for show and the district will do whatever they want to do anyway.

When the term "Buy In" is used so many times ... that begins to be a code for "We want you to think it was YOUR idea".

[Reapp]

Folks are quick to point fingers and call for layoffs when it's not their job in jeopardy.

[tarheel]

Folks are quick to point fingers and call for layoffs when it's not their job in jeopardy.

Nobody wants people to lose jobs, but the school districts are broke. How would you suggest they balance their budgets? This is not an argument, it is just a question. We're out of money, what gets cut while still allowing kids to get a quality education?

We used to do it in my business all the time. It is called zero based budgeting. You start from zero and justify every expense, every person. You do that and you find that you added things and people when money was plentiful, that you can't afford any more.

[The obscene clone fall]

Someone has to point fingers and ask why. Why do we need three to four principals in the high school and middle school? Why do we need to pamper our Super. to keep him? We do some of our coaches have enormous salaries but no teaching responsibilities?

[Caretaker]

Folks are quick to point fingers and call for layoffs when it's not their job in jeopardy.

Yep.Folks are quick to point fingers and yes its always easier to call for layoffs when its not Their job in jeopardy. BUT. The money spent on the Public sector jobs comes from the Tax payer.And since it does.Should it not be these tax payers who pass out the pink slips to anyone of these public sector jobs?

[Caretaker]

Someone has to point fingers and ask why. Why do we need three to four principals in the high school and middle school? Why do we need to pamper our Super. to keep him? We do some of our coaches have enormous salaries but no teaching responsibilities?

What. There are 3 principals in the high school and the middle school. let me guess. One has a BS.One has a MS and the head guy has a PHD. We all know what those letters mean.

[lmam88]

How many Principals a school needs I would assume depends largely on how many kids are on the campus. That being said HLES is the largest Elementary Campus in MFISD (Or was last I heard) and we only have one Principal, One Asst. Principal and one Counselor.
Is that good or bad I really don't know especially with the location being what it is...

[countryboy]

Nobody wants people to lose jobs, but the school districts are broke. How would you suggest they balance their budgets? This is not an argument, it is just a question. We're out of money, what gets cut while still allowing kids to get a quality education?

We used to do it in my business all the time. It is called zero based budgeting. You start from zero and justify every expense, every person. You do that and you find that you added things and people when money was plentiful, that you can't afford any more.


Heres how alot if not all Public entitys will be balancing their budgets.. They will just raise their rates.ISDs and Citys will up the property taxes. The state will impose a higher sales tax or more fees for this and that..Utility rates will go up as well.. The collection arm of each of these will ramp up all efforts to collect.Everything from library over dues to warrant roundups(aka revenue collecting). The bloodhounds can smell money and their noses will be in the air seeking to find it.

[meeka]

MFISD isnt broke, they are being led to think that. We do need to watch what is spent but when the school board can justify paying and interim what he makes and annunities now that he cant get TRS since he is over his contract days that is wrong. We do have to many CHIEFS and they will get rid of the indians first. MFISD still has a fund balance if needed. Why so many changes in ADMIN is ridiculus. The idea behind getting rid of the tech director .. ok so now they will ASSIGN an Instructional Technology Director, PEIMS CLERK< TECH COORDINATOR AND SECRETARY ... that doesnt sound like savings to me. So even if they use individuals already in district some of those jobs will have to be filled. The idea of not having Instructional technologist on the campus's ok,, well they will have to go into class rooms where? The ones they are forceing or trying to force to retire?
Marble Falls ISD is in the worse shape I have ever seen it in due to the INTERIM SUPER... Moral is low on all campus's but he wants the board to think otherwise! WAKE UP BOARD MEMEMBERS you are being swindled~!

[lmam88]

MFISD isn't broke, they are being led to think that. We do need to watch what is spent but when the school board can justify paying and interim what he makes and annuities now that he cant get TRS since he is over his contract days that is wrong. We do have to many CHIEFS and they will get rid of the Indians first. MFISD still has a fund balance if needed. Why so many changes in ADMIN is ridiculous. The idea behind getting rid of the tech director .. ok so now they will ASSIGN an Instructional Technology Director, PEIMS CLERK< TECH COORDINATOR AND SECRETARY ... that doesnt sound like savings to me. So even if they use individuals already in district some of those jobs will have to be filled. The idea of not having Instructional technologist on the campus's ok,, well they will have to go into class rooms where? The ones they are forcing or trying to force to retire?
Marble Falls ISD is in the worse shape I have ever seen it in due to the INTERIM SUPER... Moral is low on all campus's but he wants the board to think otherwise! WAKE UP BOARD MEMBERS you are being swindled~!

Obviously you are correct, Meeka or why else would they be running help wanted ads in the paper for Teachers of all ages? Very puzzling:confused:

[K5JSW]

The problem is the way they set the budget ... Caretaker is correct they do NOT do it like business.

I sat in on the MFISD school board two years ago. VERY educational evening on the thinking that goes on there.

1st. The passed pay increases for Admin people.
2nd The set the pay rates for the teachers.
THIRD they decided on what TAX RATE they had to set to meet those expenses (and others of course).

A business does not go about it that way. If you do not get it, and THEY DID NOT, there is no place for people like that running an entity. A business would have to adjust expenditures to fit the funds available PERIOD.

[The obscene clone fall]

Marble Falls isn't advertising for teachers. I have checked their openings list for two years and they don't even take subs. They had a teacher retire in December and that position was never posted.

[K5JSW]

OH, forgot to mention at that same board meeting they said that had saved $250,000 (the amount may be wrong - but you will get the idea).

I asked where they had this savings.
They said transportation.
I said "That's good, HOW did they make this savings with all costs going up (fuel, insurance, salaries), maybe we can learn something from this savings."

It turns out the "savings" was really a double booking that was found by transportation.

I tried to explain to them that was NOT savings that was a mistake that was corrected!

[lmam88]

Marble Falls isn't advertising for teachers. I have checked their openings list for two years and they don't even take subs. They had a teacher retire in December and that position was never posted.

That's funny our future daughter in law saw an ad in the paper last week and put in an app:confused:!!!

[Moses]

Just a few comments:

1. "State" testing is mandated by the State, but actually is a result of the "No Child Left Behind Act" - mandated by the Feds. Every state has to test, in some manner, and meet the Fed guidelines, and that's the way it is if the state wants to get Fed money for their schools. Before NCLB, the Feds mandated it in other ways.........same s*(t different day.

2. The idea of cutting administrators is met with resistance at the administrative level because

administrators view themselves as the most important aspect of a school district. Plain and simple.

In school districts, the tradition is that the teachers' job is to serve the needs of the administrators, and NOT the other way around. The teachers are expected to make the jobs of the administrators easier, by doing paperwork that supplies data to the admin - so that reports and data mining can be completed by admin. Teachers are expected to complete paperwork so that the secretaries' jobs are easier - and NOT the other way around. Instructional aides are utilized on teacher workdays to do work for office and administrative staff, and NOT for teachers.

The administrative view is that administration is the driving force of the school district. The view is skewed so that the admnistration truly believes that "administrative needs are prioritized above all other needs".

MFISD is no different. This top-down view makes it very difficult for teachers and for change to take place. It also makes budgeting unrealistic, in that administration fails to recognize where true excess might exist, because they do not see it in their own building.

Until that view is drastically altered - NO REMEDY TO THE PROBLEM WILL EVER TAKE PLACE.

3. It is unfortunate that the district has failed to find a superintendent in the length of time that they have had to search. IMHO it would indicate that perhaps the current search committee might wish to disband, and allow others to take a shot at the job. Maybe fresh eyes could yield something for the public.

The cynic in me wonders, however, how much politics has to do with the delay. I would hate for that to be the problem,

because our district is in trouble, and the very idea that we are depending on a TEMPORARY person to make these very critical decisions is absolutely mindboggling to me.

[Nomos]

Everyone here is talking in conclusions when they say "MFISD is too top heavy with administrators and bureaucrats." BUT, I don't see any FACTS.

Wonder if anyone has facts on mfisd on how many classroom teachers, how many of those coach, how many non- certified in the classrooms, how many support (clerical, maintenance, etc) and how many administrators.

Only then can we determine if and to what extent there is fat.
And does anyone know what good ratios are? Any examples of effective schools with low admin:teacher ratios?

[Nomos]

Everyone here is talking in conclusions when they say "MFISD is too top heavy with administrators and bureaucrats." BUT, I don't see any FACTS.


Surely someone, pro or con on this issue, has the facts on where, how and to what extent the school district is top heavy. This is not something we should ignore and not an allegation we should make without facts. I just don't know where to look. Maybe someone does. Maybe someone from the school will jump in here with factual data.

[tarheel]

MFISD has between 3100 and 3650 students, and 230-260 full time teachers, depending on which figures you use, which can vary due to when the numbers were taken. Total staff is 516, according to the MFISD website. So, about 1/2 of total staff is teachers. So, give or take, you've got 1 teacher and 1 staff for every 13 or so students.

I think part of the problem is consolidating schools instead of having neighborhood schools. When I went to elementary school (long ago, I admit), I could walk to school, and almost all of my classmates did too. We had 150 students, 6 teachers, including the principal who also taught 6th grade, and one custodian who cleaned the school and repaired things. There were elementary schools dotted all over town and they ran the same way.

Looking back in my high school annuals, I see very little staff or administrators, and my town was about 14,000-16,000. So, take a good look at what the National Education Association has done for you and your kids over these years, and try to convince me that kids today are getting a better education than we did back then.

I think the schools have too many administrators, too many staffers, too many specialists, and are simply all around bloated. My wife, of 40 years, was a teacher and she agrees me backwards and forwards on this.

Oh, and by the way, at recess, we boys pulled out our pocket knives, and played "stretch" and "mumbly peg." If you don't know what that is, I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for our kids who now get suspended for what we did playing every day.

I carried my shotgun to football practice in the summer two-a-days, so we could go dove hunting between practices. It was a whole other world. God help our poor kids growing up in this crazy world.

[bimbo]

...agrees with tarheel about the good ole-bad ole days. there were fewer paper pushers and more teachers in districts back when... and unlike now, there was way less emphasis on "counseling," "social intervention" and "alternative discipline" techniques....teachers taught subjects, they weren't social workers!

2 local fixes for mfisd:
- invest in teachers and shrink administration
- designate the alternative campus (epic) as a second high school with emphasis on vocational and technical education

1 state-wide fix for mfisd and others:
- eliminate the robinhood system (mfisd pays out 3 or 4 million to the state, unconstitutional state property tax if you ask me...)

--
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

[Peaches]

Why are Llano and MFISD tax payers paying the maximum property tax rate of $1.50 per $100 value while those districts that receive Robinhood money are often not "maxed out" on their tax rates? Why don't Llano and MF School districts lower their tax rates to a level that would eliminate the "excess" funding that goes to "property poor" districts? Just saying....

[Nomos]

MFISD has between 3100 and 3650 students, and 230-260 full time teachers, depending on which figures you use, which can vary due to when the numbers were taken. Total staff is 516, according to the MFISD website. So, about 1/2 of total staff is teachers. So, give or take, you've got 1 teacher and 1 staff for every 13 or so students. * * * *


Hooray! Finally some facts. :)
Tarheel, can we get a breakdown of the staff positions? Maybe
-- principals, vice-principals
-- library
-- counselors
-- office & clerical
-- ?? what others are there ??

[tarheel]

Nomos, I did some brief research, but I just can't do full research right now. My wife, astonishingly, thinks my chores around here are more important. :)

Every staff member is listed on the website, I think, but you would have to go through them one at a time and tally up the various categories. Would take some time.

I do have thoughts about how to improve things. I would eliminate the Department of Education (yes, eliminate!) and bust up the NEA. They have been the ones in charge over the disintegration of our educational system. 100% bureaucrats who have bullied and demoralized our classroom teachers.

[meeka]

HLES- 1 of each Principal, Assist Principal, counselor, Nurse, Registar/Attendance Clerk, Principal Secretary about 650 students
MFES- Is the same with less students
CES- is the same with less students
SWE- Principal, Counselor, Registar Nurse way LESS students little over 200
HS- Principal, Attendance Clerk, Receptionist, Principal Secretary, Assist Principals 3, Registar, 2 other secretaries, Counselor Secretary, Assist Principal secretaries 2, Testing coordinator(new postion added 1) Counselors-4 (I think I have them all)
MFMS has 1 Principal 3 Assist Principal 1-registar 1- attendance clerk 1-receptionist 1-Princal Secretary 1-Instructional Tech Coordinator

Marble Falls has around 4000 students currently in the district
New Postions added as of a month ago...Director of Instructional Technology,,,Technican Coordinator,, PEIMS Clerk, and Secretary. Since Our interim got rid of the Tech Director/Peims Coordinator and reassigned Admin Assist... 4 positions have been created.
Supposedly the Instructional Technologist positions are being removed, and those people will be moved back to teaching. MFISD seems to think if they move people around it will look as if they are reducing costs.

They even have a substitute secretary at the technology dept. WHY? they have 7 employees?
Our district continues to waste money/but try to pretend they are cutting costs. First cost that should be CUT is the ACTING SUPER... when you gross est 18k a month that is crazy!