Leave Social Security alone

[curious]

FINALLY, A VOICE OF REASON: "Simply put, Social Security has not contributed one thin dime to the current deficit. It should not be used as a piggy bank to pay our way out of the fiscal hole we find ourselves in," said Barbara Kennelly, president of the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare. :banghead:

[curious]

Yes, you pay tax on your social security benefits and that has been the case since 1984 (prior to that, social security income was tax free). Social security was originally set up to be tax free. We can thank Jimmy Carter and the democrats for this. Just like Obama, Carter enacted this BS but made sure it started on somebody elses watch. Obamacare wont kick in until 2014, long after he's gone, too.

[tarheel]

Shhhhh. The Democrats don't want us to realize that they are "funding" their socialized medicine program by stealing from Social Security. They'd rather we not put two and two together and find out that they're also going to "fix" Medicare by rationing care and thereby assuring that oldsters die sooner. It is their "final solution."

After paying IN to the system for 45 years, they plan to cut you off and give the money to people who have contributed nothing. Cute.

[luxgolfer]

I cannot believe some of the claims you people are making about SS!

SS has been a readily available piggy bank that previous congressional bodies have tapped into (unethically) for decades. They represented both parties!!!

And, lest you republicans out there have already forgotten, your party fought the establishment of SS tooth and nail. Oh, before I forget, your's was the party that also rallied against Medicare.

Finally, I fail to understand why you refuse to recognize that Great Britian, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, France, Italy and Belgium (among other western nations), offer low cost medical care to their citizens. Last I looked, none of them are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

Get over it folks...affordable health care is a must for the future of the U.S.A.

[curious]

Luxgolfer, just because both sides "unethically" tapped the til in the past, doesn't make it right now! And there is a fine line between affordable health care and socialism. If health care in other places around the world is so much better than what we have, why does everyone keep coming here? If we had only LEGAL citizens draining our healthcare system, it WOULD be affordable! What you want is for the legal/working Americans to pay for the ones that lay up in the house and play video games all day and party all night. If you want socialism, go to a socialist country (like Cuba). America is NOT socialist, at least not yet, praise God!

[luxgolfer]

Curious...what evidence do you have that plans are being made to tap the SS system to pay for better health care? Be realistic: EVERYONE does not come to the U.S. to obtain health care! Don't only blame illegals for using (emergency) health care...the biggest culprits are fraud and waste. And, don't accuse me of wanting for "legal/working Americans to pay...that lay up in the house and play video games all day and party all night." How can you make such a ridiculous charge against somebody you've never seen in your life? I'll agree that there are people who don't work, who don't want to work, who want to live on t he government dole. But there are out-of-work people who want jobs, but can't find jobs for various reasons. Just look at Burnet County, where the majority of unemployed are from trades, construction and other low-paying fields. Because--in my opinion--most of them are minimally educated people, they have no other skills to call upon and once their field dries up they're unemployed. Don't hint that I want socialism because I don't. But, I want every American to have equal opportunity and access. Finally, I spent over 45 years with the U.S. Air Force, and supported this country in Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Iran and Iraq, plus the long, drawn out Cold War with the USSR. I've been places and seen things you'll never experience; my main concern now is how do we deal with the hate-mongers, rumor-spreaders, racists and bigots who've come to the fore in the past couple of years???

[Peaches]

Finally, I spent over 45 years with the U.S. Air Force, and supported this country in Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Iran and Iraq, plus the long, drawn out Cold War with the USSR. I've been places and seen things you'll never experience; my main concern now is how do we deal with the hate-mongers, rumor-spreaders, racists and bigots who've come to the fore in the past couple of years???

Lux, have you listened to any speeches made by Obama? There is never a "reach across the aisle" unless it's to slap the Republicans - and I mean ALL the Republicans - and everybody else who doesn't agree with him. Obama is supposed to be the leader of this country, and he sets a very poor example by leading the hate-mongering, the rumor-spreading, and his messages are enforcing racism and bigotry. Seriously, listen to his messages in every single speech. You'll see what I mean.

There have been many claims of racism and bigotry by the Left against the Right that have yet to be proven. Remember the Congressmen who claimed they heard racist shouts at the rally against the Health Care Reform measure? Not one of those claims was captured on camera or by recorder, despite the heavy news coverage.

All too often, I feel this administration and these "leaders" only care to play the race card. I sincerely hope that those Democrats who truly love this country (and there are many) will stand up and call for an end to this. I also hope they will call for an end to the attack on Christians.

As for the Right side of the aisle, we need to accept diversity. We call for less governmental control in our lives, but we refuse to accept the fact that consenting adults should have the freedom to choose their partners without interference from our Church or State. It's just not right to discriminate against anybody because of race, religion, sexual preference, age, etc.

Government needs to stay our of our Bedrooms and out of our kitchens (don't tell me what I can and can't eat!)

Governmnet also needs to respect the fact that taxpayers contribute to our Medicare, Medicare, and Social Security system for the purpose of having that fund so that we have a means of living through the hardest times in our lives.

[curious]

BRAVO, Peaches, BRAVO. Well said. Government should be about securing our liberty, not denying it. Robbing Peter to pay Paul becomes a serious problem when Peter runs out of money too!

[Caretaker]

[. Robbing Peter to pay Paul becomes a serious problem when Peter runs out of money too![/QUOTE]


Thats right it does become a serious problem..And the moral of the story is that You just cant do buisness with a sore Peter.:laughing:

[Peaches]

OMG, Caretaker...that is soooo funny!

[tarheel]

Peaches, you have a good way with words. Caretaker, you just did pretty good yourself, that was a beauty.

The trouble is that when you let government in your house, it is the nature of government to take over the whole house.

[JWebb]

"Finally, I fail to understand why you refuse to recognize that Great Britian, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, France, Italy and Belgium (among other western nations), offer low cost medical care to their citizens. Last I looked, none of them are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy."

Lux - have you watched the news lately?

[lmam88]

You know the Social Security battle has been raging on ever since I can remember. The thing that is most worrisome right now to most ameican families is we are facing losing the insurance we pay for through our employers. It is being forcasted that employers are going to take a hit on penalities ($2,000 per person) rather then offer employess insurance because of the skyrocketing preimums...
If true...well, I cringe to even think of what the results are going to be! You think the welfare system is maxed out right now? You better fasten your seat belts folks!

[luxgolfer]

JWebb...I watch 3 newscasts a day: ABC, NBC, CBS, and I occassionally CNN during day, plus read 2 newspapers and 2 news magazines.

Curious...Where exactly is this "robbing Peter to pay Paul" occurring? Were you one of those who jumped with joy when GWB announced his plan to eliminate Social Security by moving it to the private sector? If that had happened, all of us would be in a world of hurt right now.

Peaches...Yep, you have a way with words; unfortunately they're superficial! This president has tried to reach across the aisle numerous times during the past 16 months; usually he gets rebuffed by the representatives from the party of "no." Race card? Yeah, I see it dealt to my computer almost every day and the cards sure aren't coming from democrats. I can find no evidence of the government invading my bedroom or kitchen, i.e., no disturbed cobwebs under my bed or rearranged canned goods in my pantry. I do see the government keeping its hands off the abortion debate, other than to stress that a woman should always have the right to decide what's best for her (of course, Oklahomans disagree). I do hope the government will continue to warn me whenever it discovers problems in our food chain, and to continue to attempt to educate Americans about the dangers of over consumption of some foods.

To All...Anybody out there unknowledgeable enough to believe the government will ration health care needs to get smart.

[curious]

To All...Anybody out there unknowledgeable enough to believe the government will ration health care needs to get smart.

Lux, it's obvious you haven't read the bill!:banghead:

[tarheel]

This is Obama's Budget Director speaking. Listen to him, then tell me that I should get smart.

http://www.healthcarebs.com/2010/04/26/obamas-budget-director-explains-how-death-panel-will-ration-health-care/

Robbing Peter to pay Paul: Oh, you could say taking $500 billion out of Medicare, which is already in trouble, in order to provide socialized medicine for illegal aliens, among others who have paid nothing into the system. Do I need to remind you that the Medicare recipients PAID for it over their lifetimes?

This President has reached across the aisle? That is the most incredible statement I've heard in a long time. You're in some kind of parallel universe.

[Peaches]

This president has tried to reach across the aisle numerous times during the past 16 months; usually he gets rebuffed by the representatives from the party of "no." Race card? Yeah, I see it dealt to my computer almost every day and the cards sure aren't coming from democrats.

Did you hear any of his speeches when he went on the road to sell the health care bill after it passed? As I said, he's supposed to be the leader, and a good leader doesn't make backroom deals to pass his agendas into law, them smirk at those who oppose his tactics. He, and other Democratic leaders (not all) are guilty of doing that.

Show me ONE TIME where he reached out to Republicans. He hasn't, because he doesn't have to.

[tarheel]

JWebb...I watch 3 newscasts a day: ABC, NBC, CBS, and I occassionally CNN during day, plus read 2 newspapers and 2 news magazines.

So, you watch four liberal TV "news" outlets, read two liberal newspapers, and two liberal magazines (I would guess something like Time, right?) and you feel you're informed? It is more like you're brainwashed.

Seriously, you need some balance.

[carvet44]

Curious - you said SS was started to be taxed by Carter in 1984? Am I the only one who remembers that Reagan was in office then? Wasn't that part of his reagonomics?

[curious]

Curious - you said SS was started to be taxed by Carter in 1984? Am I the only one who remembers that Reagan was in office then? Wasn't that part of his reagonomics?

You obviously didn't read my entire post. It was enacted by Carter but didn't go into effect until after Reagan took office. Just like the Obamacare BS, which was passed in 2010 but will not go into effect until 2014. Reaganomics was not tax & spend. Reagan was a staunch conservative, God rest him. :mad:

[Caretaker]

How many who recieve SS actually need it?.

[curious]

For the majority, that's all they have to live on. Are you telling us that you'll turn it down?

[Peaches]

I think perhaps Caretaker is actually talking about Social Security Disability. I believe there are a lot of bottom suckers living off the system who are able to work, but won't.

As far as those eligible to receive Social Security at a certain age...if they paid in, they should receive it.

[tarheel]

How many who recieve SS actually need it?.

What does need have to do with it? If you have been paying for insurance on your house for the last 40 years, and it burned down, how would you feel if the insurance company told you they wouldn't pay because they decided that you didn't need the money?

[curious]

What about the illegals that haven't paid a dime? . . . .

[Caretaker]

For the majority, that's all they have to live on. Are you telling us that you'll turn it down?

I would rather turn it down and would rather not pay into it too.

Yes a good # of folks depend on it.But there are many who dont need it and only take itbecause they paid in to it all those years.Its Understandable but.

[Caretaker]

What does need have to do with it? If you have been paying for insurance on your house for the last 40 years, and it burned down, how would you feel if the insurance company told you they wouldn't pay because they decided that you didn't need the money?


There are those who dont need it.They only reason they take it is for blowing money.The two dont even compare. You can take out insurance by choice. SS is by force just like all income taxes.. If given the choice I would rather not have anything taken by force.Let me keep what I earn. I will save and save and save until that time that I cant earn anymore..And if I run out then thats just to bad.Just means that I wasnt frugil enough.

[Peaches]

There are those who dont need it.They only reason they take it is for blowing money.The two dont even compare. You can take out insurance by choice. SS is by force just like all income taxes.. If given the choice I would rather not have anything taken by force.Let me keep what I earn. I will save and save and save until that time that I cant earn anymore..And if I run out then thats just to bad.Just means that I wasnt frugil enough.

I can't imagine how Social Security could possibly work if deductions were optional, so what would happen to those who were not able to save enough for their retirement because they barely make ends meet each month now? And, what about those who suffer life-altering events that leave them unable to work and save for retirement? It's my feeling that the government would still be expected to support those who didn't, or couldn't, save for their future needs. The government would do that by increasing our taxes. So, once again, the burden would fall on the taxpayers' shoulders....

Doesn't it stand to reason that anybody who pays into the system should qualify, at some point, to be paid by the system? Wouldn't paying into the system and not being able to draw from SS because of wealth limitations be more equal to "redistribution of wealth" (AKA Socialism)?

I'd rather pay into it and be able to draw back from it. If I don't live to retirement age, hopefully the money I contributed can help support my family members when they retire.

[Nomos]

How many who recieve SS actually need it?.
Define "need" -- in my case (drawing it soon), I feel a "need" to get back "some" of MY money! Had I been able to invest on my own all that I've put into SS over the years, even without employer matches, I would be clipping coupons in the Bahamas right now.

[Caretaker]

Define "need" -- in my case (drawing it soon), I feel a "need" to get back "some" of MY money! Had I been able to invest on my own all that I've put into SS over the years, even without employer matches, I would be clipping coupons in the Bahamas right now.


Are you saying you would have made more on your own through individual investing or that you have more thru Gov SS after all these years??

Would you have rather had that money to decide for yourself what to do with it??

Need. That to me would be anyone who has no other income.pensions,investments etc.Congressman plans..

[JWebb]

Caretaker, how would you feel if you had paid into a savings account for over 40 years and when you were ready to access your funds the bank decided you didn't need them and refused to release them to you?

[Caretaker]

Caretaker, how would you feel if you had paid into a savings account for over 40 years and when you were ready to access your funds the bank decided you didn't need them and refused to release them to you?

Still not the same thing. You have a choice to save in a savings account. With the goverment you dont have a choice.

And did I ever ask if they would let you have it after all the years of putting into it.. No I asked if everyone actually needed it.

[Peaches]

Caretaker, I think with the recent economic down-turn, and the risks involved with investments over the past couple of years, there will be many more people who will "need" their Social Security benefits than there would have otherwise been. Way too many people lost money they had planned to use in retirement. Investments are always risky. If government would keep their hands out of the Social Security fund, it would be a safer investment.

[tarheel]

And I repeat, need has nothing to do with it, nor does it matter if you are forced to pay into it or not. The fact is you pay the money into social security and you are to receive something in return. There are all the elements of a contract between you and the government. Government seeks to unilaterally break the contract AFTER you had fulfilled all of your obligations. How on earth can anyone say that is right? The fact is, the government has been running a Ponzi scheme with our social security dollars. A private individual would go to prison for doing the same thing.